Defender » All available evidence suggests that animals gain nothing. They suffer, then die. That's it. God doesn't prevent their suffering, despite having limitless power.
Define "all available evidence." I believe that all living things are comprised of material bodies and animating spirits. I also believe the atonement covers animals as well as humans, meaning that all animals will be fully resurrected and exist eternally. I've never bought into the Adventist doctrine of soul sleeping, and just as people look waxy and unnatural when the spirit departs from it, animals also tend to look unrealistic after they die. I'm very much against making animals suffer, even for the benefit of humans.
By the way, this topic is about animal suffering, but you keep diverting onto humans.
In my initial response, I highlighted the portions I was responding to. When man fell, however it happened, animals fell too. I'm simply pointing out that man and animals are going through the life cycle together. Both we and animals are going through it together. I don't believe Earth is the only world God has created, but it's only my belief. No one can prove anything, of course. But if there is a God, and I'm convinced there is, there's a purpose to everything He does. And as Paul states in 1 Corinthians 15, God creates on numerous levels, celestial and terrestrial, and he creates using differing intelligences and glories. To think there would be a God, a grand designer, but no purpose to life is unthinkable. There's either a God or there is not. If not, then none of this makes any difference. But if so, there has to be a purpose.
Why so many Jehovah's Witnesses, (who preach about a loving God) ignore this injustice, is beyond me.
Me, too. In fact, there are many Christians who believe that animals do not possess spirits that live on after death. Use them, abuse them, mistreat them and destroy them. There's no purpose to their lives, they say. I've got a much loved cat who's on his way out with a liver ailment. We've got a great relationship going and if I didn't think I'd see him again, I'd be crushed. The more one knows animals (as in really knows) animals, the more one should viscerally know that animals and people either share a purpose. Or they share annihilation at death. Frankly, if Cofty is right, that there's no purpose to any of this and that when we die, we die, I'd rather just go now. I can't recall who said it, but to think the three most common ways we die is marriage, a 40-hour work week or a revolver is too fatalistic for me.
Making up a reason with no basis may make you feel better. It doesn't address any of the issues about animal suffering that I have raised.
Well, I never said I was making it up. I have reasons for believing the way I do, but then we all have reasons for believing what we believe.
The God of the Bible has needlessly inflicted suffering. Read the Bible.
Ever see the TV show, GET SMART? Max gets captured by Kaos and is programmed to kill the Chief when they play their weekly game of chess, which Max always loses. He's told when he hears the word "Checkmate" to draw his pistol and kill the person who said it. So they're at the Men's Club playing chess and the Chief, true to form, beats Max. But instead of saying, "Checkmate" the Chief says, "Well, that's another one, Max!" Max begins examining the board when the Kaos agent, disguised as the waiter, says, "Checkmate! Aren't you going to say, 'Checkmate'?" At which point Max pulls his gun and shoots the waiter dead.
"Max," the Chief yells. "Why did you do that?"
Max looks at his gun, then down at the waiter, then he looks at the Chief. "I don't know," he says, "but I have a feeling I better have a darn good reason!"
I have read the Bible, and I can't believe that with all the suffering in the world that there's got to be a good reason. We may not know the full story, but when we do it will all make sense. For now I can say with confidence that nothing we suffer here on Earth is of any lasting harm.
Most wild animals cannot ask for help.
They shouldn't have to. Animals are a part of the stewardship of man and man will answer for any cruelty he inflicts on animals just as he is answerable to what he inflicts on his fellow man.
"If one is a Christian, one usually concedes that man doesn't have the whole picture"... is just avoiding the issues. Avoiding the contradictions in your own belief in a loving God. I don't believe in the Bible as being divinely inspired.
But that's part of being a Christian. If you're NOT a Christian, fair enough. Life is a crap shoot and then you die. If one is a Christian, however, one admits he doesn't have all the missing pieces. And there's little we can do about it until we have the opportunity to ask the Lord for ourselves. It's not a very satisfying answer, but we can't change it.
